A rather unique way of approaching Cybersecurity
Michael Kassner | 07/13/09
|

Self Security requires education
CG IT | 07/13/09
|
 
I guess that's their point
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
  
A crime for making substandard products
CG IT | 07/14/09
|
   
That makes sense
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
    
Product liability
CG IT | 07/14/09
|
     
Your analogy
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|
   
Microsoft Guilty of Negligence
Spitfire_Sysop | 07/14/09
|
   
wrong
ITSecurityGuy | 07/14/09
|
    
There are 5 Billion idiots in the world
dayen@... | 07/16/09
|
     
Need to explain
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
  
a few analogies
ITSecurityGuy | 07/14/09
|
   
Excellent observation
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
    
who determines "reasonability"?
larrie_jr@... | 07/15/09
|
     
OK a question
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
     
many already block ICMP
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
   
Uninsured insurance
Saurondor | 07/15/09
|
    
Why can't we
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
     
If that concept ever gets implemented...
dixon@... | 07/16/09
|
     
Why would that be?
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
     
Michael, I think he sees the backward responsibility backfiring -
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
     
Wow
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
     
Yep, Ernest nailed it
dixon@... | 07/17/09
|
     
The theory
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
     
Sometimes...
dixon@... | 07/18/09
|
  
There are already technologies...
ITSecurityGuy | 07/14/09
|
   
Too invasive?
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
    
And what if they do not have an actual MS Windows system,
Deadly Ernest | 07/15/09
|
 
Preposterous
jtmaupin@... | 07/14/09
|
  
If you read the paper
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
   
The overall thought pattern is absolutely ABSURD!!!
larrie_jr@... | 07/15/09
|
    
I suggest
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|

Absurd
cod3fr3ak | 07/14/09
|
 
I like that
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
  
Don't Kill the Messenger - Kill the Criminals!
tcarlisle@... | 07/14/09
|
   
two things
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|
   
Wait a minute
cod3fr3ak | 07/14/09
|
    
My son's viewpoint
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
     
Agreed...
cod3fr3ak | 07/15/09
|

People just aren't capable
techrepublic@... | 07/14/09
|
 
Software again
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
People dont need to be capable
Curious00000001 | 07/14/09
|
  
Hmm
cod3fr3ak | 07/15/09
|
   
how much skill does it take to know if here is a patch available?
Neon Samurai | 07/15/09
|
    
Neon, patching and knowing they're needed is also requires special
Deadly Ernest | 07/15/09
|
     
I don't think one person is to blame by any means
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
     
Neon, I think you and I agree in principle on this, but I see a deeper
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
     
I agree, that's why I suggest that retailers have to stop selling toasters
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
    
You need
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
     
Apple's Java neglegence is another example
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
     
Is that the OS
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
     
I think it's Navy wide for all Windows installs
Neon Samurai | 07/17/09
|
     
How about
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
     
I find it odd that such critical systems are using Windows
Neon Samurai | 07/17/09
|
     
I'm not sure I agree
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
     
They threatended to change platforms, MS stepped up
Neon Samurai | 07/17/09
|
     
You have to consider the military procurement process
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|

Available tools and available training
edennis@... | 07/14/09
|
 
In their report
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|

My thoughts...
tmalo627@... | 07/14/09
|
 
Nope
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|

Security starts with the end user!
jgarner@... | 07/14/09
|
 
Yes, but provisioning is important too
b4real@... | 07/14/09
|

One step forward, two steps...
shardeth | 07/14/09
|
 
Not that extreme
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|

I believe accountability as a good thing, but
eryk81@... | 07/14/09
|
 
That might be how
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
  
I didn't find THIS ONE acceptable...
larrie_jr@... | 07/15/09
|
   
Sorry Larrie
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
    
SOX, HIPAA,... ITILv3 by law? Sorry Michael
larrie_jr@... | 07/15/09
|
     
Good points
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|

So my computer is like my house...
rdavidson@... | 07/14/09
|
 
No it's not
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|

With distributed computing came ...
RU_Trustified | 07/14/09
|

The most secured system in the world.
Ming Kang | 07/14/09
|
 
Great post
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
  
Most will miss it too ...
Ming Kang | 07/16/09
|
 
Go willie go... :)
larrie_jr@... | 07/15/09
|
  
It is just human ...
Ming Kang | 07/16/09
|
  
Right or privilege?
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
   
Did I hear you right???
larrie_jr@... | 07/20/09
|

Do or Die
britnat@... | 07/14/09
|

another analogy
james.atkin@... | 07/15/09
|

They're crazy
macgvr | 07/16/09
|
 
Not at all
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
  
Yes, Michael
santeewelding | 07/16/09
|
   
Ah subtle
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|

Michael, I just remembered a bit of Aussie law that would be an issue
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
 
Their theory
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
  
Michael, when we come up with a total resolution for all crime you'll
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|

Make the ISP's earn their money
toddah | 07/21/09
|
 
not sure that port watching would help
Neon Samurai | 07/21/09
|
Every computer
santeewelding | 07/13/09
|

I found it interesting
Michael Kassner | 07/13/09
|
I don't buy it
LyleTaylor | 07/13/09
|

I thought of that too
Michael Kassner | 07/13/09
|
 
Yes, but
LyleTaylor | 07/13/09
|
  
I agree
Michael Kassner | 07/13/09
|
   
Michael, people have been saying that for about fifteen years
Deadly Ernest | 07/13/09
|
    
Maybe too late?
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
     
you may be right, but I think some hard hitting laws may change
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
     
It's possible
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
   
Analogy
tracy.walters@... | 07/14/09
|

Bad analogy, I think.
seanferd | 07/13/09
|
 
It's complex
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
  
That's like the situation of six lawyers discussion the meaning of a
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
   
Well said, yet
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
    
ah, in such a positon he's required to have
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
   
And that's exactly how our legal system became what it is
BlueKnight | 07/14/09
|
  
The professors make
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|
 
We are the Solution
kcs5456@... | 07/14/09
|

Criminalizing the victim
mhara42@... | 07/14/09
|
 
Bigger picture
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
 
Given the chance, it would hold in court
check_here@... | 07/16/09
|
  
I like your viewpoint
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
   
Solution lies in ...
check_here@... | 07/17/09
|
    
They want to do that as well
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
     
Users' responsibility/accountability in crimes is never excused
check_here@... | 07/20/09
|

Deserve it
Curious00000001 | 07/14/09
|
 
How to determine reasonable protection?
Robbi_IA | 07/14/09
|
  
My Opinion
Curious00000001 | 07/14/09
|
 
How do you
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
rustedtech | 07/13/09
|

My thoughts as well
Michael Kassner | 07/13/09
|
This is a Government problem
BALTHOR | 07/13/09
|

Well said
Michael Kassner | 07/13/09
|
 
Balthor's account has been kidnapped!
martian@... | 07/15/09
|
They have a good basic concept that will always fail
Deadly Ernest | 07/13/09
|

The Controversial Concept
santeewelding | 07/13/09
|
 
Actually, the controversial point, as I saw it, was a fine based on
Deadly Ernest | 07/13/09
|
  
I did say
santeewelding | 07/13/09
|
   
yes, but we all know you're refering to your mind (nt)
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|

Seems like I saw something about that very idea being raised in...
shardeth | 07/14/09
|

Current law...
shardeth | 07/14/09
|

Regarding Responsibility
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|
 
How they make the fix available can be done in a number of ways
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
  
Or do you want
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|
   
the "piracy" issue is a whole different bundle of fish and requires
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
   
That's actually
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
YES!
Jaqui | 07/13/09
|

Maybe luzer
boxfiddler | 07/13/09
|

Interesting to say the least
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
~chuckle~
Jaqui | 07/14/09
|
 
There might not be enough
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|

Twilight Zone
Saurondor | 07/14/09
|
 
I remember that episode
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
  
IP control
Saurondor | 07/14/09
|
   
True
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
 
I wasn't
Jaqui | 07/14/09
|
  
Sorry
Saurondor | 07/14/09
|
 
Hey, there already is a technical answer for all this, MS and Intel
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
  
I'm not a fan
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
   
I'm in 1,000% agreement, but MS and Intel are sneaking it in (nt)
Deadly Ernest | 07/15/09
|
    
Why do you say that?
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
     
Long memory - OK, seriously, here's a couple of links to look at. But
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
     
ah, trusted computing
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
     
Neon, now I do NOT say this is actually happening, but,well I can get
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
     
I think part of it is priorities
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
 
Your arguments are
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|
  
You are so right
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
   
LONG! Don't get me started :-)
ocie3@... | 07/15/09
|
    
We shall reconvene
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
how does it account for companies who leave the users open
Neon Samurai | 07/13/09
|

And
santeewelding | 07/13/09
|
 
Dilemma
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
  
no one cares until it effects them
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|
   
I like that
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
    
I stole it too..
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|
     
Works for me
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|

Not rambling
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
Boiling down
boxfiddler | 07/13/09
|

Some here
santeewelding | 07/13/09
|

Too late?
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
Not really
melias@... | 07/14/09
|
  
Education is usually the key point
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|
 
Too late for some.
boxfiddler | 07/14/09
|
  
I've heard
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
Interesting, but questionable idea
jkameleon@... | 07/14/09
|

Good points
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
the best thing I've heard about revenge is the saying
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
  
Good one
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|

Cost and Education
StephenInScotland | 07/14/09
|
 
I'm in agreement
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|

imagine that granma on a big & noisy 18wheeler...
mario.aguirre@... | 07/14/09
|
 
There are no 18 wheeler bugs and viruses (no text)
jkameleon@... | 07/14/09
|
  
They do get
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
   
Tire flaws, OS flaws, and EULA
jkameleon@... | 07/16/09
|
    
Most of the EULA sounds impressive but is NOT legally sustainable
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
     
Interesting, Ernest
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
     
I don't know about in the USA or anywhere outside Australia, but it
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
     
So...
jkameleon@... | 07/17/09
|
     
Provided the law suit meets all the legal requirements, you get paid
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|
     
I think
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
     
Yes Michael, they have the deep pockets - but lets bring a little of the
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|
 
Think of it more like a car - people buy and drive cars, but don't know
Deadly Ernest | 07/15/09
|
  
Not talking of servicing, but of ...
mario.aguirre@... | 07/16/09
|
   
I think it comes down to the terms
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
Some Schneier from my morning reading
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|

Possibly
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
true, the how of it isn't as important when your looking at the damage
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|
  
How to
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
   
I'd almost suggest radio licenses
Neon Samurai | 07/16/09
|
   
Maybe
Michael Kassner | 07/16/09
|
Not just Cybercrime
LocoLobo | 07/14/09
|

Another good point
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
Another good point
tracy.walters@... | 07/14/09
|
  
Not sure
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
Most users don't know any better
dryflies | 07/14/09
|

Why do you think
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
 
Simply because everyone sees things from their own point of view.
Alzie | 07/14/09
|
  
Why do you say that?
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
marc@... | 07/14/09
|

Not quite sure
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
Sure Blame the Victim
eliwap | 07/14/09
|

Sometimes the victim is to blame.
boxfiddler | 07/14/09
|
 
Sorta Reminds Me of Men in Black
eliwap | 07/14/09
|
  
And when Windows corrupts
boxfiddler | 07/14/09
|
   
That was NOT the issue you were squeeking about...
larrie_jr@... | 07/19/09
|
    
You have no idea what you're talking about.
boxfiddler | 07/19/09
|
 
Victim is a victim... don't hate the player?
larrie_jr@... | 07/19/09
|
  
Don't give
boxfiddler | 07/19/09
|
   
Little touchy??? tsk tsk tsk...out with the bad, in with the good
larrie_jr@... | 07/20/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
dasdaniel2 | 07/14/09
|

that's a little harsh.. but what would your solution be
Neon Samurai | 07/14/09
|
 
A clarification
ocie3@... | 07/14/09
|
  
as someone replied to that; piracy is a seporate issue
Neon Samurai | 07/15/09
|

Vivid analogy
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
RE: Sounds like a ponzi rollout
lyleson_c@... | 07/14/09
|

About responsibility
Michael Kassner | 07/14/09
|
Negligence? Prove it!
Mabrick | 07/14/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
sanleanna@... | 07/14/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
thomas.moore@... | 07/14/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
rforeman@... | 07/14/09
|
First reaction
NotSoChiGuy | 07/14/09
|
Cyber crime a changing front
Robbi_IA | 07/14/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
gradkiss@... | 07/14/09
|
Upon some more thought...
NotSoChiGuy | 07/14/09
|

What?
boxfiddler | 07/14/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
viennamicro | 07/14/09
|

Right on...
cod3fr3ak | 07/15/09
|
Good Idea
robert.obando@... | 07/14/09
|

Most don't know, and many more are stuffed by their ISPs
Deadly Ernest | 07/14/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
hlhowell@... | 07/14/09
|
RE: A problem shared ....
andy.gravett@... | 07/15/09
|

Antoher excellent response.
cod3fr3ak | 07/15/09
|

It's a neat idea
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
 
oversight
andy.gravett@... | 07/16/09
|
By their logic...
dixon@... | 07/15/09
|

The precedent is set
santeewelding | 07/15/09
|
 
I realize...
dixon@... | 07/16/09
|
  
Prattle
santeewelding | 07/16/09
|
   
Hopefully, you can forgive my "prattle"...
dixon@... | 07/17/09
|
    
Dixon
santeewelding | 07/17/09
|
     
I make no such case...
dixon@... | 07/18/09
|
     
Just two things
santeewelding | 07/18/09
|
     
Case closed
dixon@... | 07/19/09
|
     
The case
santeewelding | 07/19/09
|
Cybercrime: shifting responsibility 2 users would aggravate d problem
check_here@... | 07/15/09
|

I agree
andy.gravett@... | 07/15/09
|
 
Apparently they do...
cod3fr3ak | 07/15/09
|
  
I think they call that Cyberpunk
Neon Samurai | 07/15/09
|
  
you could be on to somthing
andy.gravett@... | 07/16/09
|
 
Can I get you
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|
  
I grabbed it earlier
cod3fr3ak | 07/15/09
|
  
I'm not sure
andy.gravett@... | 07/16/09
|
   
Bill Gates has been pushing a thing now called Trusted Computing
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
    
I understand
andy.gravett@... | 07/17/09
|
     
Does this mean that Intel are changing their mind and programming
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|
     
Thanks Andy
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
  
there are only users
hlhowell@... | 07/21/09
|
   
we would blame the bank
Neon Samurai | 07/21/09
|
The concept they put up of it being to hard so forget
Deadly Ernest | 07/15/09
|

No they don't
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
|

You obviously don't understand...
dixon@... | 07/16/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
gordon_zigenbine@... | 07/16/09
|

Gordon, don't confuse autism with dumb - two different things, many
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
Criminal prosecution for negligence
Ozolins | 07/16/09
|

The highway is a nice analogy, but when we take to the highway, we
Deadly Ernest | 07/16/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
maclovin | 07/17/09
|

hackers don't care about your mail server
Neon Samurai | 07/17/09
|
 
Making a point...
maclovin | 07/17/09
|
  
You are part of that universe already, your just using the wrong terms
Neon Samurai | 07/17/09
|
   
Hehe...
maclovin | 07/20/09
|

The professors whole point
Michael Kassner | 07/17/09
|
 
Michael, why should users be willing - they buy a consumer product
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|
  
That marketing is a big part of the problem
Neon Samurai | 07/17/09
|
   
too right (nt)
Deadly Ernest | 07/17/09
|
Cybersecurity: traditional ways still useful
VytautasB@... | 07/20/09
|
RE: Cybersecurity: It's our problem
helpwithvb@... | 08/03/09
|