Masking passwords may do more harm than good
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|

edited to remove my dumb post
CG IT | 06/29/09
|
 
I'm not sure that's his purpose
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
  
edited to remove my dumb post
CG IT | 06/29/09
|
   
I'm sorry
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
    
Mike, seen to many people trying to "sell"
CG IT | 06/29/09
|
     
I'm confused, I guess
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
     
It is the business
stuart@... | 06/30/09
|
     
CG IT and Stuart, It's not quite that simple
NickNielsen | 06/30/09
|
     
Great comments
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
     
Nick... the article wasn't about using new security
CG IT | 06/30/09
|
     
But there is positive feedback
NickNielsen | 06/30/09
|
     
and the 2nd point IS about security, although...
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
    
Nielses Norman Group has to sell something
CG IT | 06/29/09
|
     
I'm with you now
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
     
Selling something
stuart@... | 06/30/09
|
     
I agree, masking is good.
Timbo Zimbabwe | 06/30/09
|
     
Dumb post was because I removed my initial post
CG IT | 06/30/09
|
     
I appreciate both of your comments
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
    
Can you learn some more?
sgmunson | 07/07/09
|
     
Interesting point of view
Michael Kassner | 07/08/09
|
     
Michael, good response and I think the article and responses
Deadly Ernest | 07/08/09
|
     
Thanks Ernest
Michael Kassner | 07/09/09
|
 
More about masking
Romeemore@... | 06/30/09
|
  
Actually
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
   
biometrics
Deadly Ernest | 06/30/09
|
    
Fellowes 99199 Secure Touch Mouse with fingerprint security
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
     
yep, about as good as any password and can be tricked
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
     
I agree with Ernest
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
   
Revealing typos, rather than unmasking
pworlton | 07/02/09
|
    
Second factor
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
     
That sounds reasonable
pworlton | 07/06/09
|
     
It's bad enough without the DC sync
Neon Samurai | 07/06/09
|
 
Here is a similar article
CG IT | 07/20/09
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Never thought of it that way
seanferd | 06/29/09
|
 
Good idea
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
  
blackberry passwords
andrew.lawlor@... | 06/30/09
|
   
I have that capability
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
another password entry model?
cpr | 06/30/09
|
  
The problem with that
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
  
HUH?
gcalderon71@... | 06/30/09
|
   
You are
santeewelding@... | 06/30/09
|
    
and this is relevant why?
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
     
Count yourself
santeewelding@... | 06/30/09
|
    
Is it bad?
gcalderon71@... | 07/01/09
|
     
Variation on a theme
santeewelding@... | 07/01/09
|

Not a real problem on my end...
jemorris@... | 06/30/09
|
 
Thank you
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
Use sentences for your passwords.
gcalderon71@... | 06/30/09
|
  
good thing that @ sign is there
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
   
I saw it after I posted it
gcalderon71@... | 07/01/09
|
   
Heck that's nuthin'...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|
    
Strange
Michael Kassner | 07/11/09
|
     
He just needs some anger management..
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
     
Needs to chill
Michael Kassner | 07/11/09
|
     
Sensai says
santeewelding@... | 07/11/09
|

Bigger Problem
ksgilliland@... | 06/30/09
|
 
WOW! 4 whole digits
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
I use PWsafe
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
  
Ah! You neglected to mention...
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
   
You are right
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
    
YubiKey does look very interesting
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
     
It is cool
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
    
Two versions of YubiKey or Encryption
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
     
That's it
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
    
two configs would be handy
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
     
It's fairly new
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|

The problem with end user choice...
mwlod@... | 06/30/09
|
 
Well said
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
  
Transparency
ultimitloozer@... | 06/30/09
|
   
Read my mind
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
   
They will
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
re: The problem with end user choice...
fkowal@... | 07/02/09
|

Paranoid
Curious00000001 | 06/30/09
|
 
Great book
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|

I have a sweet little script for service accounts
neilb@... | 06/30/09
|
 
Sorry not quite following you
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
  
Windows service accounts
neilb@... | 06/30/09
|
   
What about applications that use the passwords?
kmdennis@... | 06/30/09
|
    
We use a different account
neilb@... | 06/30/09
|
   
Whoa, you all are on top of this
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
    
Good one Michael...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
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Thanks, Jay
Michael Kassner | 07/11/09
|

To mask or not extends beyond passwords
anita.louis@... | 06/30/09
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Just a thought
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
Also RoboForm
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
  
Sounds like
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
   
http:\\www.roboform.com
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
    
Some of us are on a strict budget...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|
     
Darn
Michael Kassner | 07/11/09
|
     
Is the YubiKey free software/firmware?
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
 
not always true
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|

Maybe just something that is necesary.
Derteufel | 06/30/09
|

How about some masked password costs here we can measure?
Former Big Iron Guy | 06/30/09
|
 
Thank you
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
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Exactly - just the kind of thing the article...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|

Wow - so by unmasking passwords
The 'G-Man.' | 07/02/09
|

too tight security is no security
allenm@... | 07/02/09
|
 
Good password policy, not fully implemented
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|
  
Yes - our AD policy alerts started about a week..
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|

Passwords should NOT be required BEFORE needed.
alan@... | 07/02/09
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what password generator are you using
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
  
The problem is B.T. incompetence, not LastPass
alan@... | 07/03/09
|
   
wow.. that's freaking irony.. I just checked the website
Neon Samurai | 07/03/09
|
    
Wow! Worst "verify" I've seen yet!
JCitizen | 07/15/09
|
   
Very good example...(nt)
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|
 
Security Questions
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
  
I've considered that
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
   
Keepass to the rescue again
Neon Samurai | 07/06/09
|
    
Too late, RoboForm beat you to it!
ITSecurityGuy | 07/06/09
|
     
Need to know
Michael Kassner | 07/07/09
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If it's working for you then your all set
Neon Samurai | 07/07/09
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Michael, on the site now. Looks good overall but not for me
Neon Samurai | 07/07/09
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Yes, I had replied two days earlier & 256bit encryption
ITSecurityGuy | 07/14/09
|
     
Sorry, lots of posts
Michael Kassner | 07/15/09
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it reduces the attack methods
Neon Samurai | 07/15/09
|

Cost of incorrectly typed password is negligible
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|
 
Still
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
  
Good consideration, but...
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|
   
Wouldn't disabling
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
    
Absolutely correct...
SDH_NetService | 07/03/09
|
     
anti-hammering
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
     
If it's FTP then lockout tries is irrelevant.. sFTP makes a difference
Neon Samurai | 07/06/09
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@Neon Samuri re: correct terms & overkill
ITSecurityGuy | 07/06/09
|
     
spelling errors and login credentials.
Neon Samurai | 07/07/09
|

Is it so bad??
larry@... | 07/07/09
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Why do you keep doing this, Michael?
santeewelding@... | 06/29/09
|

Sure you will
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
 
it's already there!
patrick@... | 06/30/09
|
  
Wireless key
Derek Schauland | 06/30/09
|
   
I like d-link's approach
detours | 07/02/09
|
    
get Keepass or Password Safe
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
     
a good pasword manager
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
     
You think either of those...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|
 
I wish he would stop trying...
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
  
Which has absolutely no bearing on site interactivity
Deadly Ernest | 07/05/09
|
   
many being irrelevant &/or wise-a$$ comments
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
    
Correct, which is why I don't follow the figures at all
Deadly Ernest | 07/05/09
|
     
if you look at an earlier post in this thread...
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
All reasons why passwords are a bad idea
jdclyde | 06/29/09
|

I do as well
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
 
Not my reason for disliking autocomplete
jdclyde | 06/29/09
|
  
Good point
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|

You know who is worst about trying to guess a password?
jemorris@... | 06/30/09
|
 
I could see that
jdclyde | 06/30/09
|
 
I've experienced
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
passwords: Why it's not a good idea
Jaqui | 06/29/09
|

Multi-factor systems
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
 
true, but
Jaqui | 06/29/09
|
  
True
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|

sounds like the KeyScrambler extension/accelerator
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
What about video hooks...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|

Security requires inconvenience
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|
 
I like your example
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
There has got to be another way
santeewelding@... | 06/29/09
|

There are solutions
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
 
That's what I mean
santeewelding@... | 06/29/09
|
  
Gotcha
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
   
Oh, no.
santeewelding@... | 06/29/09
|
    
Slow but sure
Michael Kassner | 06/29/09
|
  
I am thinking
jdclyde | 06/30/09
|
   
That's funny
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
   
rhinological?
NickNielsen | 07/01/09
|
   
Still, a study
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
    
& sniff computers?
rbees | 07/02/09
|
     
I'm guessing this is ironic
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
 
ING Direct had a good one
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
  
Roboform
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
   
I would swear by it!
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
    
Open Source?
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
     
Sounds like NIS 2009..
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|
   
re: Roboform
fkowal@... | 07/02/09
|
  
and they still have it available
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
   
I'm going to
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
   
Like CNET and ZDNet?...
JCitizen | 07/10/09
|
Checkbox choice seems reasonable
e_caroline@... | 06/30/09
|

View button
sseifert@... | 06/30/09
|
 
Same with TrueCrypt
anewcoder@... | 06/30/09
|
  
Agree with masking choice AFTER entering password
bshaffer@... | 06/30/09
|
 
Mask on exit
mdj801@... | 06/30/09
|
 
All thought are much appreciated
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
mcvickerp | 06/30/09
|

My iPhone as well
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
Text entry box
qlue | 07/02/09
|
  
Totally agree
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
Forget about CISSP study ?!
ilya.shick@... | 06/30/09
|

Not sure what you mean
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
rdowdy@... | 06/30/09
|

Great example
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|

Hmmm!?
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
Why tweak a proven security measure?
tdarmond@... | 06/30/09
|

Not out of your league by any means
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
Thank you for your comments, Mr. Kassner
tdarmond@... | 06/30/09
|
  
My pleasure
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
  
Since your new, maybe these tips will help...
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
  
Good job, J
Michael Kassner | 07/11/09
|

You're a knowledgeable and security conscious user...
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|
Lost Business?
delphi9_1971@... | 06/30/09
|

I questioned that
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
re:lost business
hlhowell@... | 06/30/09
|
  
All the on-line sites I do shopping at don't require a password
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
  
agreed
rbees | 07/02/09
|
  
I don't see entering a bit of information...
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|

I have seen many of my friends who...
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
A lot depends upon what the password is for
Deadly Ernest | 06/30/09
|

Great post!...
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
Scaramoosh | 06/30/09
|

Which GPS
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
Garmin Nuvi760
Scaramoosh | 07/02/09
|
  
I have a Garmin
Michael Kassner | 07/03/09
|

At first, I thought you meant
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|

password masked, get it wrong and you're screwed!
Scaramoosh | 07/02/09
|
 
It's just a GPS
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
  
address list?
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
   
I suppose
Michael Kassner | 07/03/09
|
    
True, it wouldn't be a pandemic issue I expect
Neon Samurai | 07/03/09
|
     
Still
Michael Kassner | 07/03/09
|
     
I can make some guesses
Neon Samurai | 07/03/09
|
It's bad usability, but there is another threat against which it defends
bob@... | 06/30/09
|

I've read about that briefly
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|

Somewhere I read that the security for wireless..
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
Did you See his Credentials?
Conexxions | 06/30/09
|

Losing sight of the goal
bblackmoor@... | 06/30/09
|
 
I disagree.. the article is soley about user experience
CG IT | 06/30/09
|
  
Only if you ignore his second point.
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
Choose the goal: secure or friendly?
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|

Valid point
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
Good of you to post links to the articles
SDH_NetService | 07/02/09
|
  
Only if you think password authentication ...
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
   
"with something better"
santeewelding@... | 07/11/09
|
    
I must admit...
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
     
Never too much, my friend
santeewelding@... | 07/12/09
|
     
I was a little bit ago...
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
Partial mask achieves both aims
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|

fuggedaboudit
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
Have you
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
  
no I haven't, but why do you ask? I'm curious.
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
   
I'm trying
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
  
Only after the fact...
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|
As usual, I agree with Nielsen
bblackmoor@... | 06/30/09
|

I have to ask
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|
 
I thought he meant the useability doctor
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
Password Rules
bbanks69b@... | 06/30/09
|

So just getting rid of passwords or unmasking them
CG IT | 06/30/09
|
 
bbanks69b wasn't suggesting either
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
  
Got You
bbanks69b@... | 06/30/09
|
   
How about an answer of an on-line DNA analysis to get in
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
    
I've been reading
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
     
A lot depends upon the type of test they do and to how big
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
   
I think a biometric multi-factor solution is better..
JCitizen | 07/11/09
|

I agree with that
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
that's a security through obscurity function as they think
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
  
True
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
   
correct, but it will make no difference to say how long the max
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
    
Not sure
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
     
Two questions, two postions
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
What about trust?
darren.meyer | 06/30/09
|

I love it! - "where are they going to?"
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
 
I was thinking of it all along but..
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|

I was going to mention that
Michael Kassner | 06/30/09
|

I agree
bbanks69b@... | 06/30/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
twainiqolo@... | 06/30/09
|

Ok, but you go first.
ITSecurityGuy | 06/30/09
|
Why have a password for all access usage?
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|

It's a loose thread
Neon Samurai | 07/01/09
|
 
and so is the gatewy, having people writing passwords down is
Deadly Ernest | 07/01/09
|
  
I'd rather have passwords written for two days
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
   
OK, lets step back a bit first.
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
    
Ah, I see
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
     
The situation I worked in where I set up the 'no password'
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
     
My laptop has a wifi built in, I don't have wifi so I don't use it
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
     
Welcome to the global Linksys network
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
     
I got this thing about security -
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
     
From Sally in HR on up to Bob and his real beef with management
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
     
Neon, one of the first rules of physical security is
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
     
I still agree
Neon Samurai | 07/02/09
|
    
A cogent discourse on what I rant/rambled about
Former Big Iron Guy | 07/02/09
|
     
You have to remember that any such approach HAS to be
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|
     
Since we are at pred(maximum level) I'll reply to myself...
Former Big Iron Guy | 07/03/09
|
     
Nice link
Michael Kassner | 07/03/09
|
    
Sounds like a college...(edited)
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
     
You're not far off the track, as it was a combined work and training
Deadly Ernest | 07/12/09
|
     
school networks are scary
Neon Samurai | 07/12/09
|
     
Mucho scary!!...
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
     
virtual switched network
ITSecurityGuy | 07/14/09
|
     
Yes, IT Security Guy...
JCitizen | 07/15/09
|
Bruce S. covered this the other week also
Neon Samurai | 07/01/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
NCWeber | 07/01/09
|

I used to
Michael Kassner | 07/01/09
|
 
I can say exactly the same thing:
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
  
for me, it was BBS and IRC
Neon Samurai | 07/06/09
|
  
I wish I still could
Michael Kassner | 07/07/09
|
  
I was definitely a geek...
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
   
nearly a nutjob
Neon Samurai | 07/12/09
|
    
My parents made sure..
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
     
how ever did you end up in it?
Neon Samurai | 07/13/09
|
     
Beats me!?
JCitizen | 07/13/09
|
 
The only thing I learned in highschool was...
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
ericarthurtodd@... | 07/02/09
|
Once upon a time...
mikifinaz1@... | 07/02/09
|

Exactly
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|
Masking passwords: why it's not the best idea
Dr_Zinj | 07/02/09
|

I remember that, it uses WOM chips
Deadly Ernest | 07/02/09
|

Thanks for sharing
Michael Kassner | 07/02/09
|

that last statement is untrue
ITSecurityGuy | 07/05/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
jasilvasy | 07/07/09
|

That's my approach
Michael Kassner | 07/08/09
|

One variant there would be to toss in a number between two
Deadly Ernest | 07/08/09
|

Long easy to remember passphrases...
JCitizen | 07/12/09
|
RE: Masking passwords: Why it's not a good idea
awhitney@... | 07/10/09
|

Good point
Michael Kassner | 07/11/09
|