$455 a week
Ed Woychowsky | 10/07/09
|

That's nothing ...
PMP'sicle | 10/07/09
|

The way in which pay is truely accounted
sdbett@... | 10/09/09
|

Computer Employee Exemption from Overtime
brent.hawthorne@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Background of Special Computer Exemption
randal.evans@... | 10/09/09
|
  
Wrong, Justin: Developers and Analysts Can't Earn OT,
chrisfalter | 10/14/09
|
   
Yes, and no
Justin James | 10/15/09
|
    
The IT industry is still exempt, and what exempt status means
chrisfalter | 10/19/09
|
     
The industry is NOT exempt
NickNielsen | 10/19/09
|

It's the management, stupid!
Baruch Atta | 10/09/09
|
 
i'm with you Baruch
rscholz@... | 10/09/09
|
  
E-Flu
tsmith71553@... | 10/13/09
|
   
and this has been organized?
jk2001 | 10/13/09
|
 
I agree too
jorge_barros_c@... | 10/10/09
|
 
YES, IT'S THE MANAGEMENT BUT IT'S ALSO THE EMPLOYEE
stoprambling@... | 10/10/09
|
  
Yeah, and with the mismatch of federal, state, and local
Deadly Ernest | 10/10/09
|
 
YES, IT'S THE MANAGEMENT BUT IT'S ALSO THE EMPLOYEE
stoprambling@... | 10/10/09
|
  
Stop Yelling!
robert.harding@... | 10/13/09
|
   
Agreed!
groffg@... | 10/13/09
|
 
Re: It's the management, stupid!
obhiee | 10/12/09
|

This happens in every industry
juntunen@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Right to Work
j3hess@... | 10/09/09
|
  
Unions in SD
juntunen@... | 10/09/09
|
   
"Right to Work" = "fewer rights" in PA
sterghe@... | 10/09/09
|
  
j3chess is clueless
HavaCigar | 10/13/09
|
   
Working in closed shop != Right To Work
clementsmith@... | 10/13/09
|
   
re-read his post
jk2001 | 10/13/09
|
   
What is your pay status?
jfk@... | 10/14/09
|
  
I'll agree with the fees re freeloaers, as long as the unions
Deadly Ernest | 10/13/09
|
 
"This happens in every industry"
sdbett@... | 11/05/09
|

Non-Exempt can hurt
halecki@... | 10/09/09
|
comp time
LocoLobo | 10/07/09
|

comp time can be OK
Professor8 | 10/07/09
|
 
Overtime != more productivity
alexri@... | 10/09/09
|
  
Don't make a (project) manager's problem your own.
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
   
Comp time
mudpuppy1 | 10/09/09
|
 
That happened to me
LocoLobo | 10/09/09
|

Comp time should be time-and-a-half off
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
Comp time
Curious00000001 | 10/09/09
|
 
Straight time would be reasonable.
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Here it is for more than 80 hours in 2 weeks
LocoLobo | 10/09/09
|
I'm still amazed ...
PMP'sicle | 10/07/09
|

What makes it worse...
Justin James | 10/07/09
|

depends on overhead burden rate
Professor8 | 10/07/09
|
 
Overhead burden only 20% !?!?!?!?!?!
NickNielsen | 10/07/09
|
  
They don't understand math, is the problem!
Justin James | 10/07/09
|
 
Other pay related employer costs
wrmosca@... | 10/08/09
|
  
And a loyal, content work force
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
   
Amazing...
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
    
But don't you see
NickNielsen | 10/09/09
|
 
20%?
jk2001 | 10/09/09
|
 
Actually ....
PMP'sicle | 10/09/09
|

The Dread U Word
schmidtd@... | 10/08/09
|
 
In Europe almost all IT workers are unionized
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
  
Not true....
The 'G-Man.' | 10/09/09
|
Excellent article, but missing the legal discrimination of Americans
dmconroy | 10/07/09
|

missed legal discrimination against US citizens
Professor8 | 10/07/09
|

Lobby congress
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|

ummm
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
Easy answer
The 'G-Man.' | 10/07/09
|

Not that easy
alarid1891 | 10/07/09
|
 
What choice would they have
The 'G-Man.' | 10/07/09
|
  
What choice would employers have?
mjstelly | 10/08/09
|
   
Assign someone who doesn't know how to do the job, and get fired
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
    
Accountants
PMP'sicle | 10/09/09
|
  
PATCO was all professionals
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
   
Air Traffic Controllers Not A Profession.
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
    
Not a profession...
info@... | 10/09/09
|
    
Watch out! this guys head might explode if it gets any bigger!
sharrison@... | 10/09/09
|
    
If "Ignorance is bliss", Keith you are joyous
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
    
Bwuh?
frank.huminski@... | 10/09/09
|
    
Occupation?
NickNielsen | 10/09/09
|
 
Unpaid OT is morally a form of grand theft
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
  
And what you have here is...
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|

That would definitely be one answer
Justin James | 10/07/09
|
 
they have no clue how to run an IT project on time.
Professor8 | 10/07/09
|
  
The Mythical Man-Month
gypkap@... | 10/08/09
|
  
What kind of applications do you do?
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
  
You haven't been looking ....
PMP'sicle | 10/09/09
|
 
Even the medical profession grandfathered in existing physicians and surgeo
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|

Not so easy at all
paymankhoda@... | 10/07/09
|
 
:B-) similar observations
Professor8 | 10/07/09
|
  
I double majored in...
Justin James | 10/07/09
|
 
Yes but
The 'G-Man.' | 10/07/09
|
  
Would you consult doctors who studied music
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
   
Would you let a gas jockey without a degree fill your tank?
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
    
IT problem, too many non-professionals in management
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
    
LOL!!
nfhiggs@... | 10/09/09
|
     
Isn't he great?
NickNielsen | 10/09/09
|
  
Considering the Doctor my mother in law goes to: Hell yes.
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
   
Considering the doc ...
marysob@... | 10/09/09
|
 
A voice of reason and experience
mjstelly | 10/08/09
|
  
sociology major is another thing entirely
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
  
I have a friend
darpoke | 10/09/09
|
  
If it was a profession, why would you be barred?
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
  
How reasonable?
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
   
Not reasonable at all...
info@... | 10/09/09
|
    
No sweat
NickNielsen | 10/09/09
|
 
20 years experience would get you a professional designation
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
  
most professions require continued education
jk2001 | 10/09/09
|
   
And you think We don't
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|

Not actually an answer to this issue.
jbrother | 10/07/09
|
 
Skill...
The 'G-Man.' | 10/07/09
|
  
How do we do it?
NickNielsen | 10/07/09
|
   
If you
The 'G-Man.' | 10/09/09
|
  
You're missing a few of the more obvious things there...
eric.sorrentino@... | 10/08/09
|
   
Accountants sans degree?
mjstelly | 10/08/09
|
    
CPA not a university degree, but rather a professional designation
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
   
but more places are requiring credentials for those jobs
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
    
Lack of professional status requires credential mania
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
   
obtain the required license by the state to practice?
The 'G-Man.' | 10/09/09
|
    
The requirements vary greatly depending on the type of license
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
     
So...some kind of test then
The 'G-Man.' | 10/09/09
|
     
SOPE has gone Crazy in OH
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
  
hasn't always been this way, worsening hyper-credentialism bad
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
  
Becoming a profession does not solve the theft by management problem
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
I Like option 1
slatimer76@... | 10/07/09
|

Your "easy answer" is a very bad idea
Professor8 | 10/07/09
|

ICCP?
gardoglee | 10/08/09
|
 
I joined the ICCP back in 1990.
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
Well then
The 'G-Man.' | 10/09/09
|
 
The state is never the right answer
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
  
And the practical difference between a guild and a union is what?
gardoglee | 10/10/09
|
   
No they did not
Tony Hopkinson | 10/11/09
|
   
Guilds are a collection of self employed skilled professionals
Deadly Ernest | 10/11/09
|
    
Guilds
jk2001 | 10/12/09
|
     
The most modern equivalent to a guild is a
Deadly Ernest | 10/12/09
|
     
As you say, the relationship has changed
gardoglee | 10/12/09
|

Some manager if you'd over pay like that.
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
In reply
The 'G-Man.' | 10/09/09
|
 
It is legal in the USA. But I agree it is improper.
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|

Degree != Skill
rreigan@... | 10/13/09
|
 
need certs
jk2001 | 10/13/09
|
  
Commercial cert business emerged
Tony Hopkinson | 10/13/09
|
The state of washington *specifically* exempted computer specialists
e-list | 10/07/09
|

More Detail
Rastor9 | 10/07/09
|

Okay, now I'm salaried
NickNielsen | 10/07/09
|
 
No, that's wrong
hueta | 10/08/09
|
  
What's wrong?
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
   
Wrong viewpoint, maybe
jfisher@... | 10/09/09
|

BC Canada did the same thing. It killed their IT industry.
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
Rastor9 | 10/07/09
|

Yup, those were old guidelines
Justin James | 10/07/09
|
 
Those guidelines are still current
NickNielsen | 10/07/09
|
Although the abuse of H1B and contract employees is bad...
jck | 10/07/09
|

That's wrong
NickNielsen | 10/07/09
|
 
read my statement again, Nick
jck | 10/08/09
|
  
Misread, I did
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
   
Yeah
jck | 10/08/09
|
    
The pause that refreshes
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
     
Or ...
jck | 10/08/09
|
     
I hear you
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
     
I did that a couple times with an old job
jck | 10/09/09
|
Because programming is not a labor
jkameleon@... | 10/07/09
|

You should take your own advice.
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
Got that right
jfisher@... | 10/09/09
|
 
That was not my point
jkameleon@... | 10/12/09
|
Why cry for immigrants, but not Americans?
walterbyrd@... | 10/07/09
|

"The most" is hardly exclusive
Justin James | 10/07/09
|
 
Another group the deck is stacked against...
jck | 10/08/09
|
  
Being a single worker was rough
Justin James | 10/08/09
|
   
No doubt
jck | 10/09/09
|
 
that's why they call them guest-workers
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
 
Bill Clinton used H1Bs to cut costs in the IT marketplace.
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
  
However
jck | 10/12/09
|
 
Justin you hit the nail on it's head
kpthottam@... | 10/13/09
|

You did not get the point
alnikolov@... | 10/13/09
|
Remove word "Programmers" insert words "Most 'Professional' workers"
drowningnotwaving | 10/07/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
darkmarmot | 10/07/09
|

The state is never the right answer
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
NoJoeSchmo | 10/07/09
|

This is exactly what I had in mind ...
jkameleon@... | 10/08/09
|
 
some thoughts....
yattwood | 10/08/09
|
  
Re: some thoughts....
jkameleon@... | 10/08/09
|
Programmer labor problems increased under Bush Admin
Questor1 | 10/08/09
|

A Seinfeld solution
Ed Woychowsky | 10/08/09
|
 
that's old solution, broken by guest-workers
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
 
withhold service?
mjstelly | 10/09/09
|

How do we fix this situation
dbmec0 | 10/08/09
|
 
Herding cats
Ed Woychowsky | 10/08/09
|
  
What does it mean to be "organized"?
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
   
A decisive walkout
darpoke | 10/09/09
|
  
We are not organized...but we have organizations
mbrown@... | 10/09/09
|
 
HERE NOWHERE
techrep_com.kenw@... | 10/08/09
|
  
search on Schumer and immigration
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
  
We hoped for change,
F4A6Pilot@... | 10/09/09
|

Who cares? Get over it. The horse is dead.
techrep_com.kenw@... | 10/08/09
|
 
yeah
jck | 10/08/09
|
 
Bush is out, but your salary will suffer for years
Questor1 | 10/09/09
|
  
AND
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
   
Blaiming Obama & ignoring Bush problem cause doesn't work...
Questor1 | 10/13/09
|
    
Hmm,
DaemonSlayer | 10/13/09
|

Management hasn't gotten overtime in decades
NickNielsen | 10/08/09
|
 
yes...
jck | 10/08/09
|
  
Good luck on bonsuses, golden parachute, etc.
Questor1 | 10/09/09
|
   
well that's funny
jck | 10/09/09
|
    
the bennies
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
     
I've seen it still in middle management
jck | 10/12/09
|
 
FLSA requirements are subjective & DOL doesnt investigate
Questor1 | 10/09/09
|
  
Legal assumptions?
NickNielsen | 10/09/09
|
   
Your quotations of law don't amount to legal interpretations
Questor1 | 10/13/09
|
    
Not an assumption
NickNielsen | 10/13/09
|

Carter, Reagan, Bush41, Clinton, Bush43, Obama: getting geometrically worse
Professor8 | 10/08/09
|
 
It has nothing to do with presidents. It's the globalization & market
jkameleon@... | 10/08/09
|
  
Generic software by large SW companies does not serve all needs...
Questor1 | 10/09/09
|

hold on a sec...
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
 
Bush 8 yrs of problems can't be cleared by Obama only 9 mo in office
Questor1 | 10/13/09
|
  
you mean like...
DaemonSlayer | 10/13/09
|
Few learned professionals work unpaid overtime
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|

It's talent glut, not lack of guts
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
 
There is a surplus of lawyers here, but they have not cut their rates
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
  
So there is no surplus...
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
rupeshsha8452@... | 10/09/09
|

interesting
julian.white@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Idotic Britsh colonial tradition... hmmm...
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
  
Cry, mate. Bunch of thimble brained dupes
Tony Hopkinson | 10/10/09
|
   
I've noticed them because of their persistent shortage shouting.
jkameleon@... | 10/10/09
|
    
Aye in the UK we've had
Tony Hopkinson | 10/11/09
|
     
The precision mechanic thing wasn't cyclical
jkameleon@... | 10/11/09
|
  
I'd love to know where the IT shortage is - I got three IT
Deadly Ernest | 10/11/09
|
   
That's how it goes
jkameleon@... | 10/11/09
|
 
Forget the anti-british racism
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|

???
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
Stop the whining.
shawn1313 | 10/09/09
|

Liberal or not liberal...
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Employers Use Government To Cause Us Problems
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|

Programmers should unionize like MDs and lawyers
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
I don't think that's possible
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
  
Professions and unions
jk2001 | 10/09/09
|
  
Neither do I
tuomo@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Unionization is the LAST thing IT needs...
Marty R. Milette | 10/09/09
|
 
Re: Programmers should unionize like MDs and lawyers
shawn1313 | 10/10/09
|
  
And that's only when...
DaemonSlayer | 10/10/09
|
 
Once again you pontificate from ignorance
NickNielsen | 10/10/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
dickgoodwin2003@... | 10/09/09
|

"Don't tread on me" not applicable to programmers
keith2468a | 10/09/09
|
 
I think your founding fathers wouldn't mind
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
  
Not exactly ....
jsbell@... | 10/09/09
|
   
Oh, man... guess I really should pay more attention to user profiles
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
   
AND
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
pitian | 10/09/09
|

Yeah, we're not all workaholics, but...
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
Benefits of outsourcing and contracting
robert_moloney2hotmail.com | 10/09/09
|
You Missed the Term "Computer Related Occupations"
TexasJetter | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
VirtualJWN | 10/09/09
|

Sad, but very true
Sensor Guy | 10/09/09
|

Theology... yeah, that's the word.
jkameleon@... | 10/10/09
|
 
Interesting
Sensor Guy | 10/10/09
|
  
Oh, brother... I haven't imagined it's THAT bad.
jkameleon@... | 10/10/09
|
  
Interesting - IBM and EST
Snake_and_Jakes | 10/13/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
Sensor Guy | 10/09/09
|
A better example is 'fixed term employees'.
Marty R. Milette | 10/09/09
|
Getting a good ROI from IT Professionals
Galdekot@... | 10/09/09
|
It starts with humiliation
bblackmoor@... | 10/09/09
|

I'd never take such job
jkameleon@... | 10/09/09
|
Victimizing illegal workers is second to...
Spiritusindomit@... | 10/09/09
|
Sounds like outsourcing lets companies get away with a lot...
chas_2 | 10/09/09
|

Re: Corporations didn't exist in 1776
Galdekot@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Ok
DaemonSlayer | 10/09/09
|
  
Wrong again - there were many commercial corporations
Deadly Ernest | 10/10/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
steved45@... | 10/09/09
|
I agree with organizing...
C&B | 10/09/09
|

Other than the name ...
CodemasterPrime | 10/13/09
|
 
Working long hours
jk2001 | 10/13/09
|

Hey Brother
jk2001 | 01/06/10
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
randal.evans@... | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
fmartin@... | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
davidm_95758@... | 10/09/09
|
Not this again...
mikifinaz1@... | 10/09/09
|

let me get this straight...
nfhiggs@... | 10/09/09
|
 
Well, if he works like that
NickNielsen | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
Pat9008 | 10/09/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
Drroogh | 10/09/09
|

Re: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
yattwood | 10/10/09
|
 
All well and good
NickNielsen | 10/10/09
|
 
Not only is it in IT...
DaemonSlayer | 10/10/09
|
 
offshore backfires - yay!
dickgoodwin2003@... | 10/11/09
|
  
It depends on specs
jkameleon@... | 10/12/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
textilesinfomediarydotcom | 10/10/09
|
Software Engineering from Practical Perspective
msaradhi@... | 10/10/09
|
A little introspective on US vs. Canada
jck | 10/12/09
|

The AMerican system could never tolerate this
gardoglee | 10/12/09
|
 
I have referenced my friend in Holland before
jck | 10/12/09
|
Lawyer wouldnt take the case
CodemasterPrime | 10/13/09
|

Programmer's Union
jk2001 | 10/13/09
|
Ex-H1B holder agrees and adds details
kpthottam@... | 10/13/09
|

Re: Ex-H1B holder agrees and adds details
jk2001 | 10/13/09
|
 
Agreed
DaemonSlayer | 10/13/09
|

A colleague of mine was offered H1B in 1998 or 1999
jkameleon@... | 10/14/09
|
Too bad unions have no interest.
dpresley_50201@... | 10/13/09
|

Increased Union membership may stop business abuse of workers?
Questor1 | 10/13/09
|
 
Please God, protect us from "worker protections" (including unions)
groffg@... | 10/13/09
|
  
The next lost job maybe your own...
Questor1 | 10/31/09
|
   
Unions haven't served a useful purpose in a hundred years...
Marty R. Milette | 11/01/09
|
    
I must agree
yattwood | 11/02/09
|
    
Brit views on unions dont apply to USA...
Questor1 | 11/02/09
|
     
Just an FYI
NickNielsen | 11/02/09
|
     
You'd better check your facts...
Marty R. Milette | 11/03/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
kandyass@... | 10/15/09
|

And don't forget the other side of the coin, the union bosses
Deadly Ernest | 10/15/09
|
 
That's the first
darpoke | 10/15/09
|
  
very sad, but all too true - nt
Deadly Ernest | 10/15/09
|
   
good points
kandyass@... | 10/15/09
|
    
Over the last few hundred years many people have died
Deadly Ernest | 10/15/09
|
     
So unions are a lot like governments
gardoglee | 10/27/09
|
    
On the other hand, the best way to reign in abuse of staff
Deadly Ernest | 10/15/09
|
WAhaha free enterprise getting free labor
Altotus | 10/30/09
|
RE: Why programmers are not subject to protective labor laws
jwpocid | 12/11/09
|